There’s a key difference between when writer, producer and podcaster Kevin Smith grew up, and the digital age when Defy Media founder Andy Signore grew up: today, anybody can call you a piece of shit.

Not so not long ago, if someone was unhappy you read about it in the newspaper.

A consumer can react to a piece of content and “tweet Kevin directly to say, ‘your movie sucks,‘” said Signore.

“People in Andy’s generation are far better at taking criticism,” Smith said.

They may be years apart, but both are cut from the same cloth, with Smith returning to his roots by bringing Fat Man on Batman to his own YouTube Channel from Defy Media — the home of Screenjunkies and Honest Trailers.

The two spoke about the paths of their success during the keynote session “Nerds Rising! Comedy, Cinema and Comics” moderated by Entertainment Weekly Senior Editor Jeff Labrecque at PromaxBDA: The Conference 2016. Throughout their careers, it’s that connection to their audience that has been a key role in both of their lives.

Smith recalled a life-changing moment during the ages of dial-up internet, when Ming Chen (Comic Book Men) created a website devoted to Clerks. Smith asked him if there was a way where maybe once a week he could do an online Q&A. Instead, Chen introduced him to the wonders of an online message board, where he could engage with fans and get answers to important questions, like “Why the fuck did you leave your house on a Friday night to see Mallrats?”

“I just wanted to talk to other people,” Smith said. He began engaging with fans online, asking them what they thought, hanging out, organizing events, and organically building up a fan base.

“The amount of time you spend with them aggregates into the audience you’re building, and that audience is real,” Smith said. “There’s not a [divide] between you and them. It’s ‘us’ at that point.”

And that’s something Signore both understands and is able to use to his advantage.

“When a fan reaches out to us, even if it’s negative, I reply because they took the time to reply to me,” Signore said. “If it’s negative, I think, ‘I can turn that guy around.’ And I have.”

Much of Defy Media is about building engagement, and helping its audience become part of a passionate digital community that in turn drives the type of content that defines the brand.

“Your audience is dictating what they want to see,” Smith said.

As they embark on Defy Media projects together, another thing they have in common is that both Smith and Signore enjoy creating content for the sake of self expression.

“When I first started, I just wanted to make shit,” Smith said.

But Smith grew up in a generation where “we were trained to not do what comes fucking naturally until someone signs the paperwork,” he said. Yet the infrastructure of Signore’s digital enterprise offers newfound creative freedom. If you want to do a comedy sketch, a talk show — anything— you can just do it. There’s no gatekeeper on YouTube.

“His world is far more appetizing to me,” Smith said. “I wish I was part of his generation.”

By the same token, Smith has met countless people — Signore included — who say they wouldn’t be where they are today if it wasn’t for Smith leading the way with movies like Clerks.

“I saw Clerks and was like, wow, this is a movie that seems attainable to people,” Signore said. He began doing short-form content in high school and thought he wanted to be a director until posting one video on YouTube that got around five million views.

“I’ve got five million people who have watched every movie I’ve ever made,” Smith said. “You were able to pivot and do interesting things and get five million every week.”

Screenjunkies and Honest Trailers were hits straight out of the gate, but it doesn’t just happen overnight, Signore said.

“We’ve made sure to build a brand, which is something Kevin has had for years,” Signore said.

As Defy Media continues to grow, Signore wants to capitalize on Smith’s success and involvement with the company.

“I walk in with an audience, which makes it a little easier,” Smith said.

As the two team up and influence the next generation of creators, Signore predicts content will definitely become more a la carte as more people cut the cord on cable, expecting to pay for only the networks they want to see. Yet good content will always rise to the top.

He also hopes people will begin taking digital more seriously and help the medium thrive.

Smith also envisions more people from television and movies making a foray into the digital world, and has received suggestions to attend meetings about VR.

“I’m not a visionary at all,” Smith said. “What do I do that’s remotely virtual reality? I do people talking to each other.”

Yet people keep pushing him to become involved.

“I have nothing to add to that meeting,” he said. “But that’s how I felt about YouTube.”

What does Smith really hope will happen in the next five years?

“It would be fucking amazing,” he said, “if dragons were involved.”

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